Jared Reynolds: The Quiet Power of Being Fully Yourself

Voiceover: Welcome to the 1958 lawyer the show for attorneys who know the old model isn’t working anymore, the billable hour, the 12 hour day, the expensive office. No one visits your hosts, Ron Bockstahler and Clinton ind are here to question all of that and more by exploring smarter, healthier, more flexible ways to run a law firm, no more burnout, no more outdated expectations, just real conversations with attorneys who are proving there’s a better way. If you’re ready to build a law firm that’s profitable and livable, you’re in the right place. Now. Here are your hosts, Ron and Clinton.

Ron Bockstahler: All right. Welcome to the show. My name is Ron Bockstahler. I’m your co host with my partner Clinton. We together own Amata Office Suites. Good to have you here today. Today we got a really special guest, Jared. Thank you for joining us. Good friends. Been with the client of client of Amata for seven, eight plus years, somewhere in that range. So Jared was born in rural state at New York, moved to Chicago in 2012 where we went to Chicago. Went to Chicago Kent College of Law. He’s been practicing for 10 years. Has been self employed for five years, and Jared is heavily involved in the music scene, playing drums himself, which I think you just came from, drum practice, attending many concerts, festivals. He’s very outgoing. He’s actually a great and avid outdoorsman. Loves traveling, including hiking and camping. I don’t know that you put in this bio, but he’s a great runner, like you know, Olympic class runner, Boston Marathon, of course, and he’s one judge at the Chicago race, judicata the the annual lawyer, lawyer, annual 5k twice, currently getting back into running and hopes to run Chicago marathon again very soon. Jared, thanks for coming. Welcome to the show. It’s good to see you again, and Happy New Year.

Jared Reynolds: Thank you for having me. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. I don’t know about Olympic class running, but I’ll take the compliment.

Ron Bockstahler: I know we talked about this a lot, since I’m not not that good of a runner, but I like to think I am. And then I then I then I meet someone like you, and I’m like, man, he can really run fast.

Jared Reynolds: There’s always somebody out there to make you feel slow. That’s what I’ve learned.

Clinton Ind: You know, there’s a lot more of those people for Ron. And I though that’s the issue. There’s a lot of those people out there.

Ron Bockstahler: Yeah, yeah. Five Star Clinton, I have signed up for the Iron Man in Japan in September, right? So now the program, the training program, just getting started. Now we need to get on the game, right? We need to start really putting it together. So I might take you up on running with you here sometime soon.

Jared Reynolds: Yeah, I you know, like I said, I’m just trying to get back into it. Very different runner than I was a decade ago, so trying to be a little cautious and get into it slowly but surely. But I’ve got went to a podiatrist, and we’re good to go. So awesome.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, look, let’s get started. Want to talk about your career. You’ve come a long way, and I’d relatively short period of time. So why don’t we start? Let’s tell us about why you went to law, kind of how you ended up in Chicago, and we’ll go from there. Sure.

Jared Reynolds: I of course, you know, I feel like people ask this a lot to any attorney, and I wish I had a better answer than, you know, the typical law and order and CSI were the really cool, interesting things when I was a kid. And it just always seemed like cool could it be to be in a courtroom? And I was very passionate about criminal law in my early stages of even before law school, I clerked with small town public defender back in New York when I was in college, he sort of gave me my first taste of going to court, and you could be adversarial, but also professional. You know, he was going at it with they call him district attorneys in New York, the equivalent of states attorneys here, and then they go get drinks with them afterwards. You know, seeing that level of you can be competitive, but be respectful and have be have camaraderie between your opponents. That was always very interesting to me. And then I graduated college. I graduated a year early. I went, actually went to college with 53 credits from high school. I took all of the AP classes, all of the college classes,

Ron Bockstahler: showing your age there. Because, you know, when I was in school, we didn’t have those classes.

Jared Reynolds: Because, you know, that really set me up to I was always the young one after that, you know, I went, I started, I moved here in 2012 I was 21 when I started law school. And, you know, that was, I think that was a bit of a challenge at first. Like people, as crazy as it sounds, to think back, I remember people making comments of, what do you think you’re doing here at that age? Or how do you think you know what you’re doing at 2122 and, you know, I think I My life has always been just I always did what I thought the next step was, you know, I didn’t have any attorneys in the family. I was the first one to do four year college. Well, three years for me. Um, but I really just kept doing what I thought the next level would be, the next level, the next level. And I think coming to law school, I applied to a ton of laws. I applied to, I think 14 or 15 law schools across the country, because I didn’t know, you know, I can’t begin to explain how small the town is that I’m from. I mean, we had high school class. Was 183 graduating, but that was three counties worth of students in one school. There’s more. I was home in October, and, you know, I was feeding the deer in the backyard and being surrounded by like 20 deer. So, I mean, it is more animals than people. A lot of the area

Ron Bockstahler: that’s just like Clinton growing up there in Australia, right?

Clinton Ind: Yeah, kangaroos, kangaroos hanging, yeah, constantly,

Jared Reynolds: yeah, very similar. And that’s where, you know, I kind of just is a lot of trial and error, and I got denied by a ton of law schools. I went to college in Oneonta, New York, at SUNY Oneonta, one of the State University of New York schools, and that was a step up from where I grew up. So that was like a college town, and that gave me a taste of like I can walk to get pizza or go to a bar or a restaurant or those things. So I knew after college that I wanted a city. After that I wanted to go to law school in a city. So I applied to a lot of schools, and then it came down to Chicago, Kent College of Law and University of San Diego, which is sort of always a interesting choice to remember every winter here in Chicago. But you know, it really just seemed to me to be an easier sell to my parents as an only child, that I was only moving halfway across the country, opposed to fully across the country. And part of me thinks that if I went to San Diego, I might have just quit law school and become a beach bun. So Chicago seemed more realistic and better for my life goal.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, you got to know that Clinton, at one point in time, started up a little stand would you? Would you have surfboards or paddle board?

Clinton Ind: Stand up? Paddle Boards? Yeah? Mission, yeah. Michigan, Lake Michigan.

Jared Reynolds: Sorry, I think that would have been my life in San Diego. Had I gone? Yeah?

Ron Bockstahler: Oh yes, this question, you’re going into college, you’re going to law school. How did you How are you going to pay for it? Or, how did you end up paying for it?

Jared Reynolds: Loans, as I’m reminded frequently when I see the outstanding loans still, and I think really, that is consistent with, you know what I’m saying, that like, I really didn’t know. I didn’t have any guidance as to what, what the next steps were, how to do it. You know, in hindsight, would it have been, I don’t want to say, easier, but would it have relieved some stress, had I took any time off to work in between college or rate or get any sort of savings, I think that it would have saved a lot of money, and maybe I wouldn’t have had the big student loans bill that I have now. But it, you know, it’s really didn’t know. I can’t begin to looking back. It’s, it’s comical to see how much you don’t know in the moment, you know. And I think that remains true through many different eras of my life. And I think looking back, it was, it was quite a ultra shock for me to move to Chicago to, I think those beginning stages of law school, you know, I was this country kid with very little, if any, savings. But I was it made it was made clear to me that, you know, you got to be networking, you got to start meeting people. And so I was going out with my classmates to bars, terrified at the thought of, like, being in charge of the bill at the end of the day, and like, how am I going to pay for these drinks, or any of these different things, but feeling like, if I don’t go to the bar, that I’m not going to socialize, I’m not going to make these connections, and how am I going to in my mind, it was picking away at sort of a learning curve. But also, you know, I moved here not knowing anybody, and I knew that I needed to kind of hit the ground running to start building my network here, if I had any chance of being a successful career here. Because I saw all the people who were in generation attorneys, third generation attorneys, who took over the business from their father or their mother, or any of those things I knew that wasn’t going to be me. So that’s kind of,

Ron Bockstahler: think about what you just said about that fear of so they’re going to give me the bill, like, am I going to pay this? And I don’t got enough money to pay for everything? That’s like,

Jared Reynolds: really a fear that I only recently have started not having. So, you know. It’s it, and the reality too is, went to law school to be a public defender like period. There was no other shouldn’t in my mind, I it was really cool to me to think about moving to Chicago, because especially, I mean small town boy I was, you know, in your mind, everybody knows what people outside of Chicago hear about Chicago, and that’s exactly what I knew about Chicago before I moved here. Is that, Oh, it must be a crime ridden city. And, you know, even in the first years of law school and my career, I go home and I know family and friends think I’m like dodging bullets on the way to work or a school, or like, you know, people are very ignorant to Big City Life when you because you don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah, and I moved here to be a public defender, and I got to start working with the PDS office. I started with the homicide task force my first year in Chicago, which was just mind blowing, you know, I mean, you can imagine the stories you hear in the homicide task force of the public defender’s office. Yeah, I used to joke that, you know, I’d look at pictures and be like, okay, is this a still from the movie saw, or is this real life? And the answer is, usually, was real life and some really crazy, dramatic stories, but it really one. Working for the public defender’s office gave me just such a great footing and start of being in court, doing litigation, both oral advocacy as well as written advocacy, and it really just set the tone for, like, the bar I had for like, what, okay, what’s a bad day practicing law, because at the PDS office, that was my client spitting at me, or me, or my client going to jail, or somebody losing their life Where, nowadays, yes, the stress is there, and there’s high stake days, but it’s always just money. Nobody’s going to prison, nobody’s losing their livelihood in that way. But I think I still look back to those days at the PDS office and think, okay, yeah, maybe today was a rough day practicing law, but nobody’s losing their freedom because of anything for my end, at least,

Clinton Ind: it’s great. It’s so great to have that perspective, to be able to to I mean, there’s so much stress just practicing in civil court, right and and depending on who opposing counsel is, like you were talking about, the decorum of of being on the camaraderie of opposing counsel. But I feel like a lot of times that has gone away of late, and there’s a lot more, I don’t know, a lot less decorum, and a lot more personal difficulty, but to be able to have that perspective, yeah, to be able to reach back and be able to move past it, for sure, it’d be helpful, right?

Jared Reynolds: I fully agree, though, I feel the exact same way, and I talk about it a lot, because I joke with my friends. You know, I joke that on a daily basis. I think to myself, I have found myself in probably one of the most contentious, adversarial jobs you could ever have in your life. Every day I’m fighting. I only get paid if I win a I’m constantly, I think on a daily basis, I’m either taking depositions or dealing with people where it seems fairly clear they’re just lying to my face or gaslighting me, or telling me that the sky is not blue, or any of these different things. And that’s not who I am as a person at all. I like, I like to say that know how to fight, but I I’ve never actually had to fight, you know, and I don’t, and I don’t want to fight, but it’s exactly that I do feel like the lack of civility at times is heartbreaking. And as a young attorney, I remember the days of older attorneys trying to take advantage of me trying to I remember attorneys muttering things under the record so that the court reporter couldn’t hear it up, but that I could hear it. And, you know, I, although I’m not a fighter, I refuse to be taken advantage of or underestimated. And so although I’m not a fighter, I am mostly a lot like very competitive from my running days. So the second I get any sort of feeling that’s like somebody’s doing me wrong, that sort of flips that trigger. And I think there’s a lot of those feelings in the these days, and I try to tell younger attorneys, I do a lot of mentorship, and it really, you know, it forces you to to be pretty confident in yourself, because other people are going to sense if you’re not confident in yourself, because they’re going to try to take advantage of it. And I think lots of times, attorneys phrase it as, oh, I’m just doing what’s best for the client. Well, you know, there’s ways to do what’s best for your client and still be civil and still be professional and respectful. Again, going back to the days of my small town pub. A defender, I think about those days and same, yeah, with comparing civil versus criminal and private. I, you know, I remember the early days of practicing law, where people would come back and they’d be like, Oh, I had a really rough day in court. Today. I got yelled at by opposing counselor, yelled at by a judge, and that would always be my response. It’s like, Well, did your client spit at you today? Did you right? See your client naked in jail today? Like it’s a very different bar. You’ve had

Ron Bockstahler: a couple things because you always had a theme is you wanted to be in court. Now, that’s not the case for a lot of attorneys, but that’s something that it started with you early on. So fast forward. You’ve had, you’ve gone through your challenges. Absolutely you’ve, let’s talk about you’ve had. Maybe, I know last year, two years ago, you had one of your biggest cases, and you lost. So let walk us through why you took the case, and you know what didn’t work out well? Because I know, I believe you talk to the jury afterwards, correct?

Jared Reynolds: Yeah, I did. And, you know, it’s, it’s hard talking about losses, you know. And it was illness pretty much exactly a year ago. I it ended December 20 of last year. It was, I mean, I was coming out of moving to a new place and, and it was a big trial, it was. There were 17 defendants total, five defense firms that I went against. Each defense firm had two or three attorneys working on the file at trial, sitting at the they had to bring in significant number of extra tables for our trial and fit it into our daily center courtroom. And it was sort of comical to see on a daily basis. It’s just a room full of people, and then me walking in with my client every day, some was

Clinton Ind: it just you. That was just you against all of those other attorneys

Jared Reynolds: against the world, it felt like, and it kind of gave, you know, one of the attorney defense, and I had good enough for late, I had an existing good relationship with, I think, a good handful of the attorneys. And I think by the end, I think we all had good relationships, because I think they respected that I took it out and by myself, and I, one of them, called me the lone ranger at one point, you know. And my client actually was an attorney as well, which a litigation, education defense attorney. So that was intimidating as well. This attorney, client of mine, who had been practicing 20 years more, I think, than I have, but he was trusted me, unconditionally, gave me a ton of support. He really stayed in his own lane as the clients entrusted me, which was very meaningful and very affirming in a lot of ways. And, you know, it was, it was not only the biggest thing I had ever it was biggest thing I’ve ever taken on in my life, really, and and I knew it was going to be going into it, but it also happened to be the first trial I really took on by myself. So it just happened to be that my first trial was, like, bigger than any should be for one person. And I remember talking to people leading up to it, and the response was always the same, and I it was always with good intention, you know, but like, I could tell when people are like, you’re doing what by yourself, you’re like, they would hear about it, and it would always be the same thing, like, Well, who do you have helping you? What do you where’s the support you’re going to have? And it’s not like I was ignorant to what it was going to be, but I’m just very confident in my capabilities, and I really felt that I could do it on my own. I thought that the end of the day, there’s been many times in my career where I felt that employers of mine didn’t trust me with certain levels of work because of my age. And of course, I mean, like I’ve said, I was always the young one, so maybe it’s me feeling like I’m underestimated, feeling like I have something to prove, and there’s probably some truth to plenty of that, but I wanted the chance to prove that I could do this by myself, because at the end of the day, I knew it would give me a lot of information no matter what, either I completely bomb it, in which case, hey, I guess I’m never doing that ever again, or I am able to do it, in which case, and it’s now a year later, it has come to fruition. I do genuinely think I can do anything after that, because there’s no part of me. And I’ve talked to the jury, I’ve talked to the defense, I’ve got, I got brunch with one of the defense attorneys couple months ago, I’ve talked to the judge who oversaw the trial, and you know, everybody’s made clear that there’s no part of me losing that trial that was because of me, that was because of me, or me doing it on my own. And frankly, at the end of the day, I mean, everybody’s probably going to have their own thoughts about their own losses. But I talked to six of the 12 jurors, and six of them told me that they thought I proved every part of the case, except for one part of it, proximate cause. And I mean the way, they just probably haunt me a little bit for the rest of my life. We’re like, well, we just don’t think that you definitively proved proximate cause, or we don’t think that you 100% proved proximate cause. And I’m like, I’m sorry, where are we getting definitive from? Where are we getting 100% from? And I mean, I’m sure most attorneys are listening to this, you know, it’s not, it’s preponderance of the evidence. It’s not beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you know, I’ve talked to the defense attorney, and she said they said the same thing to her as well, you know, so at the end of the day, yeah, I do think I got a little screwed, and I’m still, frankly, paying for that trial in some ways. But that’s the whole point of this whole world, right? Is that I tell all my clients, no matter what the facts are, you can never guarantee what the outcome is going to be. Sometimes juries get it wrong, but that’s and good,

Ron Bockstahler: but that’s only been one year. I thought it was actually farther back, but only one year ago, you’ve had tremendous bounce back. So 2025, an outstanding year. Kind of what did you learn? What’d you take away? Because you’ve, you’ve turned things around.

Jared Reynolds: I think, in one hand, yeah, that that mindset of, hey, I was able to do that. I should be able to do anything. Because, you know, I’ve, and I’ve always said I a lot of other cases that, objectively, on paper, are worth more than what that case was. But also they should be less work because they’re only against one defendant, or they’re only against one defense firm or things like that. So, you know, I think on one hand, it was a very telling experience, because for me, although yes, I would have loved to win, and it was, it’s a very expensive lesson to lose a trial. I mean, I feel very comfortable talking about these things now that I’m kind of out of it, but all in all, I’ll have spent over $200,000 my own money on that trial. As you maybe know from what I’ve told you about my upbringing, I there’s not a point in my life that I’ve had $200,000 and I deliberately have never even told my parents that, because they’re

Ron Bockstahler: gonna know now they’re gonna know now baffle

Jared Reynolds: them to even think that you could spend that amount of money on something. But, you know, these cases are so expensive and so time intensive that, you know, I think I really it was very affirming, and what I ultimately learned is what I was hoping to learn, which is that I can do anything if I’m given the time and the resources to do so. And that’s kind of my ultimate mindset, is I put on that trial, very difficult time in my life with no financial stability, no. And it’s very hard putting on a trial when you’re I mean, I remember I was like, booking flights for an expert while, like, witnesses were being examined. I was doing everything that’s crazy, and that’s absolutely crazy. There were, there were 13 experts total. We had six on I had six on our end. There were seven defense experts. It was a three week med mal trial, and it was truly a wild experience. But it’s, I will never forget it, and it’ll constantly be the kind of bar where I’m able to be like, hey, and I asked, I already asked myself this, usually in every capacity of my life, which is like, okay, Jared is what I’m dealing with right now, the hardest thing I’ve ever had to deal with in my life, and 99% of the time the answer is no. And you going into that trial that the answer was yes, but, but now the answer is, again, no for most things, and that, you know, I’ve gotten through all of those things in my life, so chances are I will get through blank thing that I’m dealing with in the moment. And that’s really, I think the ultimate thing I learned from that is, you know, it was I learned that I’m able to do exactly what I thought I could do. But if there’s a big difference between, I think everybody deserves to have some blind faith in themselves, but there’s a big difference between blind faith and actually having it on paper. And you know, at the end of the day, people are going to see that on paper and see Jared lost the trial. It is what it is. They’re not going to know any of this context. They’re not going to know any of the reality. I’m sure even the defendant, doctors and everybody that I sued think that this annoying, long haired, tall attorney got what he deserved, because they didn’t do anything wrong. No, they did stuff wrong, and they just got lucky like so the reality.

Ron Bockstahler: You’ve been on your own now for five, six, I don’t several years anything you would change and any like, Man, I shouldn’t have done this. Or you, sounds like you’re pretty comfortable with your decision to go on your own.

Jared Reynolds: I’m very comfortable. I you know, it’s, I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a decision that I ever imagined for myself or that I ever planned for I did originally have a business partner. We split up amicably. And I think, I think my take or my feeling about it is how I think about a lot of things in life. Is I really don’t believe in regrets or believe in like changing things, because it inherently all the decisions I made in the past got me here with you all you know, and I am very proud of everything I’ve done in the past to get to this point. Are there a lot of things I could have done to make life easier? Probably, yeah. I mean, I think that at the end of the day this, this line of law, and area of law, is so expensive and so difficult to pay for on your own that I think it there could have been a lot of sleepless nights avoided had I had any sort of nest egg Before coming into this. But, you know, a lot of this goes back to what I had already said is again, you just really don’t know what you don’t know. And I thankfully, although the cases themselves are very expensive, frankly, Mata and a lot of other very deliberate choices I make are allow me to keep this firm very lean. And you know, of course, I’ve started having some settlements that allow me to have a bit of financial stability, really, for the first time in my life. So the question then becomes, okay, do I hire an employee? Do I get some support staff? But the problem is that I know what I could do by myself, so it’s I think I’m for a multitude of different reasons. I think my default will always be see what I can do by myself. I mean, I’m an only child. I, you know, I moved out here by myself. There’s a lot of parts of my life that I look back on and I go, Hey, Jared, you? You? It’s a very kind of lone wolf mentality, I think a lot of the time. But in a lot of ways, it’s, it’s served me, is it? Is it always necessary? Should I maybe be better at asking for help sometimes, of course, but it is a level of independence that I’m very proud of. And now working for myself and really being on my own, I’ve never been more independent and self sufficient in my life, and it’s something I’m very proud of.

Ron Bockstahler: Yeah, what brought you? I’ve watched you kind of go through a long stretch from when you started the firm to where you’re at today, and it’s been amazing. It’s been meaning. I know it’s been hard as hell, but it’s been, you know, great event from an outsider looking in. Means a lot. I appreciate it, yeah, and I appreciate you being a minor client the whole time I we do need to sit and talk to you about getting some assistance with you, as you know, like there’s some things. I actually just wrote an article about what you can outsource. Can outsource. So we’ll have to, we’ll get together when you get back from skiing, and people talk about that over a drink,

Clinton Ind: such a difficult thing to get the help. It’s such a it’s such a difficult leap to make.

Jared Reynolds: It’s an interesting dynamic because, like, think of it the same way I think of AI honestly recently, is because everybody and their mother are telling me, I need to spend all this money on AI. I need to do ABCD. And admittedly, I probably don’t use AI as much as plenty of people do, as plenty of people should. But I also frequently see the attorneys that screw up using AI, and you know, I see the attorneys that rely on AI to review 1000 pages of medical records and miss something on page 967 I’m never going to miss page 967 probably I’m not going to sleep as a result of it. But like I, you know, I always say rather spend another three hours immersing myself, in my case, than three hours sleeping. I can sleep whenever. And I think that’s the dynamic with AI is, for me, I keep hearing AI is, hey, use AI and then you can be so efficient and save time to take on a whole bunch of more work to do. I’m not trying to take on levels of work that I’ve done previous in my career. I’m trying to take on instead smaller amounts of work that I’m very passionate about, and clients and cases that I’m very passionate about, where I think I can give it my all, versus sometimes there’s been days where, yeah, my case load is so high that I don’t necessarily feel like I’m i. The time to give each case what I want, which would be my best for each case, and do I still get the job done? Sure, but I want be able to give each case my best, and I think that’s where, you know, hiring employees, or using AI more, sounds like me trying to increase my caseload, which isn’t necessarily my goal right now, I’m trying to really focus on a handful of cases that I care about, deeply smart.

Ron Bockstahler: Looking back, you got any advice for those young attorneys? We probably spin up fit 10, made 10 to 20 attorney law firms a month. So, you know, there’s a lot of people going out, starting their own practice kind of what are maybe two things you would say, hey, look, here’s your advice to them. Here’s what I’ve gone through, here’s what I tell you.

Jared Reynolds: Sure, I think I think about it a lot because, again, I never necessarily imagined a day where I own my own business or own my own firm. And lots of times I don’t even think of it as owning my own business. I just think that I’m saying a lot by myself. But, you know, I think having now done it for three and a half or four years or so, I think what it’s shown me is, I think a lot more people could be capable of doing it, but we’re not really taught that we’re capable of doing it. You know, it’d be, it would be a disservice to the machine of our legal field if we taught all these young attorneys that, hey, maybe you could do this on your own. And it’s, I think it certainly takes a level of confidence and a level of belief in yourself. But I think everybody deserves to have more reasons to be confident in themselves. And I think it takes, I think it means putting yourself in positions to sort of build that confidence. And I was very fortunate in my early career to kind of be thrown in the thick of things and get a ton of really good practical experience. I mean, this was all pre covid, and I used to be in court every single day of the week. I mean, I think in three years of my, beginning of my career, I took like, three or 400 depositions. And it really, it takes a bit of kind of self recollection and self reflection to realize, okay, where do I maybe feel like my skill set is missing that I need to develop like for me, when I started this line of work, I didn’t know anything about medicine or medical records. I wanted to be a public defender. You know? I knew about police reports. I knew about like, those side of things. So I remember the days of being in the office till early, early hours of the morning, because the thought of reviewing 1000 pages of medical records was so daunting. And I knew that I had this sort of plateau, or this learning curve that I needed to pick away at and plateau on. But I think for young attorneys, you know, it’s I think everybody deserves to find ways to be more confident in yourself, and I think that involves usually throwing yourself into uncomfortable positions, but really being realistic with yourself about what you’re good at, but also what you’re maybe not good at, so that you can start focusing on those things practically also, you know, I knew that. I knew I knew nothing about business. My old business partner was the business kind of mentality side of things, but I knew the network, and I knew how to bring in cases and clients. And it really was my intake that made me feel comfortable with doing this on my own. And, you know, I think that’s universal for any business. If somebody is going to be starting a business, you better make sure that you’ve got a network and clients and people coming in. And I think that just kind of usually involves hitting the ground running. And I like to think of it as, like, strategic networking. You know, I used to, there was a point where I got really sick of just networking with attorneys in general. Is I was going to these networking events, and it was always a ton of free alcohol, but I was competing with everybody else in the room for business. So, you know, I started getting more strategic with who I was networking, networking a lot with more non attorneys, networking with specific types of attorneys, solo practitioners. You know, I knew I wasn’t going to get any business from an older attorney who already had a PI attorney that he’s used for years and years and years. So, you know, it was kind of being aware of that. And I think the last piece of advice I’d give, both to my younger self as well as just attorney younger attorneys in general, is just like, take care of yourself. You know, it’s, it’s so much easier said than done. I really thought, when I graduated law school, I thought, you know, you hear from every. Everybody, Hey, by the way, you’re about to get into a field where addiction is high, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, divorce, suicide. You know, they give you the rundown, and we get it every year as attorneys. It’s like, hey, mental health, you’re you’re joining a field that’s not known for its mental health stability, and it’s a bit scary to hear that when you’re going through all these things. But when I was in law school, I thought, I’ll be fine. You know, I was, I was in my best shape of my life in law school, opposed to college, because I started really hitting training for marathons, and I was so fast in law school, I was like, I’m doing this in law school, I’ll be fine once I start practicing, and then I blinked, and five years passed, and I didn’t work out at all for five years, and I really hated it about myself, because that was the big point of pride. Always was my fitness. And, you know, it’s just so important, and you have to take care of yourself, whatever that means. I mean some sort of fitness, or exercise, or just going on walks or being outside or anything, is so important, but also just having a life outside of law and having hobbies and having activities, again, it’s a million times easier said than done, but if you don’t take care of yourself, your bosses the field itself. Judges, adversaries are all going to take advantage of your availability, and nobody’s going to take care of you better than you are. You know, there’s always going to be another class of younger attorneys to work, 6070, 8090, 100 hours a week, but it’s just not sustainable. And we all know how burnt out people can get. You know, I It’s not that I’m working any less nowadays, but I’m working for myself. I have a lot more control over my schedule, and in my mind, there’s always a big difference between being tired and being burnt out, you know, I remember the days of being burnt out, and I refuse to get to that ever again. I sometimes I’m perpetually tired, you know, but that’s a big part of the name, part of the business, but you’re

Ron Bockstahler: able to go out and do a lot of things. You’re controlling your schedule. That’s like the big piece right there. Yeah, exactly.

Jared Reynolds: And knowing that, you know, a I just always knew that I wanted to have a life outside of law. And sometimes there’s been overlap. But, you know, I I’ve never been the happiest I’ve ever been currently, and that’s been true for the vast majority of me, being self employed, even in the very tough, difficult moments. You know, I’ve been able to be like, Hey, this is ridiculous, and there’s no reason why I should be having to deal with this right now, but it’s a lot better dealing with it for myself and for my clients than for other people. And I think it’s allowed me to really just focus on the work. You know, I think that most days, you know, the work is stressful in and of itself, but I’m not stressed out about, like, firm politics or drama. No, there’s no drama at JM Reynolds law because, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s all me, and it allows me to really just focus on the work and focus on my clients, which is incredibly rewarding.

Clinton Ind: You also find that, like I always found that, you know, when you’re courting the attorneys or referring attorneys, the interest was in the personal right, I mean, and you have to have some personal anecdote, something to talk about other than just practicing law in order to get the attorneys to actually even want to talk to you, let alone give you a case.

Jared Reynolds: Right? Absolutely. And I, you know, very proud of the relationships I have my clients. I mean, I I just settled a case that I worked on for eight years. Oh, wow, this client, you know, it was originally for this 93 year old woman, and it was her son. Was my client. He was in his 70s. He trusted me for six or seven years. I don’t think we even met for five years because of covid and all of those things. We used to joke that we were like pen pals more than anything. And he, you know, it meant a lot, how much this man trusted me. And sure, and unfortunately, I ended up passing away. So I ended up now his wife was my client. And, yeah, I mean, I was invited to the funeral. I, you know, I am heavily involved in my clients lives, where they’re updating me on when they have kids. And, you know, even that case, I lost the client. You know, he made he’s gone out of his way to try to send me business since then. So, like, I lost his case, and he is still, you know, I’ve had you. He’s trying to find a way to compensate me despite, obviously that not being the agreement I lost the case. I said it is what it is. But I think it says something that even despite losing the case, he wants to keep in touch with me and wants to send me business I care deeply about my clients, and it’s nice, and I care dearly about them, and it’s also never lost on me the amount of trust they put into me in some of the darkest moments of their lives. And that’s just something that is never lost on me, and it’s a very unique effect of both being a lawyer, but being a lawyer in this specific field being a specific like doing it by myself, you know? And I think, I think they also, you know, I look very different than I did a decade ago. I there’s a part of working by myself that has been incredibly rewarding, because I find that I am able to be myself more than I ever have in practicing law and express myself more than I ever have practicing law. We’re, you know, we’re inherently forced to kind of fit into boxes being attorneys, and it individuality is not necessarily the goal for, I think, the legal field, and I think I’ve had a lot of attorney I’ve had a lot of clients who, I think, really respect that and see that in me and are more open with me because they feel more comfortable talking with me and sharing deep parts of their life, because they know that they’re seeing a very genuine side of me, 24/7, and I think that that’s allowed me to really build incredibly meaningful relationships with my clients that last much longer than the case itself.

Clinton Ind: I think it’s great. I think you know, one of the things we talk to our paralegals about is, in my personal opinion, you know, I think there’s a lot of flexibility in the Code of Civil Procedure for insertion of individuality into a case, like how you litigate a case case, how you want to strategize about a case, and I feel like the more individuality you can inject into it, rather than sitting in that box that everybody else seems to want to be in. The more the judges appreciate you, the more opposing counsel wants to kind of talk to you and is willing to, you know, have a good conversation with you about about things that that may not even be relating to directly to the case. And I think it’s, I think it’s really good,

Jared Reynolds: totally. And I, you know, it’s, I mean, I think back to that trial of last year. You know, it was, again, it was a bit comical walking into this courtroom full of people. But every day, you know, me being the plaintiff’s attorney and my client, I knew that the eyes were on me just about the whole most of the time. And it was bit fun putting on this show, you know. And I felt like I was able to put on a show, if you will, in a very unique way, because I’ve never been more confident in myself, you know. I’ve always had feelings of confidence, but the reality looking back on my life, is sure I had I’ve described this before, as you know, I used to be very confident in my work ethic and my accomplishments, like I am confident because I won a race, or I am confident because I got into law school or ABCD, I was very rarely confident in just myself or who I am or for my sense of self, and I think nowadays it’s been very rewarding to kind of be able to that level of confidence in myself, because not focused as much as I used to. You know, it’s not something you really realize until hindsight, is I used to be incredibly aware and concerned about how I was being perceived by other people. I mean, that’s, I don’t think I’ve mentioned it, but I mean being bisexual and like, you know, being in the closet for so long, it was I was hyper aware of how I was being perceived in society, because, God forbid, I’m perceived in a way that isn’t straight, then that ruins my biggest secret of my whole life. Like, you know, constantly, constantly aware of my actions, what I was saying, what I was doing, you know, I used to be worried about being that runner in short shorts, because I’m like, Oh, well, there we go. Everybody’s going to know because I’m wearing short shorts, you know? But that’s just the ridiculous things that you get caught up on when you are not able to just be your true self. For when you’re so preoccupied with what others are thinking about you, and it’s this fine line, because, you know, I always joke, you know, yeah, I’ve got my nails painted. I wear a lot more jewelry than I ever used to wear. I do still present a very specific self in front of a jury, you know, because it’s easy to say I don’t care what everybody thinks about me. Well, that’s not entirely true. I do care what 12 jurors. Think about me. I do care. So it’s, it’s this fine line, but I agree with you completely cleanse. I think there’s, I think there’s a lot more room to be expressive and a lot more room to be yourself in the legal field than we are shown or taught. And I, I’m not saying there’s still not a need to, you know, put on a suit and be professional and all of these things. I think there’s this fine line, but I think it’s a fine line that should be towed.

Ron Bockstahler: Yeah, yeah. Well, we got to wrap it up. But I do want to say I think you got, you’re, like, the modern day, like suits, right? Remember that show about lawyers. I mean, we’re kind of you’re going through all those tough you’ve gone through so many tough times, and you’re coming out, you’re on top now, you’re getting ready to go skiing. You got a lot of great things going on, and I’m really excited to see in five and 10 years, because all these things are just adding up in your experiences, the real experiences, like you’re actually out there practicing law and to become a really great attorney, which I think, and you know, of the 1000s of attorneys I’ve dealt with, there’s only a few that I can go, wow, they’ve just gone through it. And I’m like, I’m living it while you’re going through it, and I’m seeing the change. So it’s, it’s awesome. I’m super excited for you, and I’m very proud to call you a friend.

Jared Reynolds: Greatly appreciate all the kind words Ron and I feel the same. It’s been very rewarding getting to know you and to have that level of support. I my there have been many times where Amata has been quite a resource for me over these last five years, and so I’m greatly appreciative of that and and it just means a lot. You know, I don’t really look back much in my life, and I can’t say I really reflect a ton. So things like this are a bit unique for me, because I think I’m usually just kind of grinding and getting the work done. And it like that trial sort of is a great example where, you know, yes, it sucked to lose, but I knew that it was something that no employer ever would have trusted me with to do on my own myself. So it was an opportunity that I created for myself from the intake call five years earlier all the way through the trial. So yeah, it’s, I greatly appreciate this opportunity to reflect a bit. Absolutely love the kind words, and it’s, it’s been a pleasure. But absolutely do a beer? Do get together sometime soon?

Ron Bockstahler: Thank you for being on the show. I look back, you know, 24 I think 25 years now, when we started Amata, and, you know, kind of holistic I look at say, Gee, I really want to help people, and you’re exactly what I’d hope to have the opportunity to type of person like you to work with. So thank you very much. Thanks for coming on, Clinton. It’s been a great show. Been a great show. Thanks for joining us. The 1958 lawyer. We will be back here every week, so if you haven’t been around, we took a couple years off. So we’re getting ready to we’re relaunching the show, so you’re gonna see a lot more of us. So come tune back in and wherever you get your favorite podcast.

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