Safiya Fatima: Inside the Life of a Fractional Paralegal Powering Multiple Law Firms

Strickland Bonner: Welcome to the 1958 Lawyer, the show for attorneys who know the old model isn’t working anymore. The billable hour, the 12-hour day, the expensive office no one visits. Your hosts, Ron and Rebecca Bockstahler, are here to question all of that and more by exploring smarter, healthier, more flexible ways to run a law firm. No more burnout, no more outdated expectations. Just real conversations with attorneys who are proving there’s a better way. If you’re ready to build a law firm that’s profitable and livable, you are in the right place. Now, here are your hosts, Ron and Rebecca.

Ron Bockstahler: Welcome to the 1958 Lawyer, the podcast about the business of law. I’m your host, Ron Bockstahler, joined by my co-host, Rebecca. Clio’s benchmark Well, let me I’m going to jump right in. Clio’s benchmark data puts the average lawyer’s utilization rate at 38%, about three billable hours out of an 8-hour day, and we know most of them work more than eight hours. Most of the other five hours is work that has to get done and does not have to be done by a lawyer. And for a solo or a two-attorney law firm, that work rarely justifies a full-time hire. Today, we go behind the desk and ask a fractional paralegal who supports several firms at once to find out what actually gets handed off, what never should be, and what she has learned about the business of law from the seat almost nobody interviews. Safiya Fatima, I’m saying it all right this time? All right.

Unknown: Yes, that was actually perfect.

Ron Bockstahler: Safiya is a paralegal at Amata Law Office Suites. She’s also a 2L law student at UIC Law School. She has spent four and a half years as a in the paralegal seat, and for the past year, she has worked fractionally, supporting several firms at the same time, learning each one’s systems and carrying real casework across all of them. She holds a degree in criminology, law, and justice from the University of Illinois Chicago, and she is entering her second year of law school. Safiya, welcome to the show.

Unknown: I’m so happy to be here and talk about my experience.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, we’re excited to have you talk about it. Before we get to the first question, I want to set the table for our listeners. When most attorneys hear fractional support, they picture overflow typing, and that is not what this is. A fractional paralegal is carrying substantive casework across multiple firms at the same time, which means you you see work, and no, you see what works Well, that’s interesting. You see what works and what doesn’t at each one of them, and they’re all a little bit different. With that, Safiya, let’s start with you. Walk us through what the job actually is in practice, and even I don’t necessarily understand all that. In a given week, how many firms are you supporting, and what does the work look like across all of

Unknown: them? So, in a given week, I think I support anywhere between like three to seven firms at the same time, and I do all different types of laws. So, there’s always bouncing back between each law and area of law. A typical day would look anywhere like e-filing a document for the client or the attorney, and sometimes they ask us to review their work. Even though I’m not an attorney myself, like it’s simple things like grammar and just making sure the structure of the document is correct, cuz one thing as a paralegal is that you become so familiar with the Cook County website and the website of the clerk’s office, just so you know how each judge likes everything, because a judge is very specific and particular about how they want their courtesy copies delivered. So, when I hear or hear or see a judge’s name, I know exactly how they’re going to want something done or where they’re going to want something delivered. So, I make sure that the attorney is following those protocols, cuz attorneys don’t really have time to make sure they’re going back and checking the website, cuz things are always updating. So, I make sure to do that. Talk to the clerk if I’m e-filing something, because filing codes are always different for each thing you file, and nobody wants their filing rejected, cuz that wastes time. So, I always try to go the extra step and just call the clerk if I’m confused about anything, get a direct answer from them about exactly how I should file it under what code and file a document. So, there’s a lot of that, and that takes up a good amount of my day because I get multiple filings at the same time. Also, trial prep. A lot of the attorneys, since I work in so many different areas of law, go to trial, or they have depositions or hearings, and with all of that comes exhibits, and attorneys use a lot of paper, so there are a lot of exhibits, exhibits to print out and organize, and they just don’t have the time or space to do that. So, that’s where I would step in and make trial binders, just assemble each of the exhibits, make sure there’s exhibit stickers on them, make sure they follow the exhibit list created, sometimes I create an an exhibit list, just those small tasks that require you to know exactly what you’re dealing with legal-wise, but seem like simple tasks at the same time that the attorney just wouldn’t have time for. I hope that answered the question.

Rebecca Bockstahler: Yeah, it’s I love having having you tell us about a typical day when it seems like there probably really isn’t one because how many different types of law and how many different attorneys you support, so I think that’s pretty cool. But I know that you have onboarded a few different firms this year or in the past year, so you’ve kind of gone over that first week, first month with one of your clients a time or two. So maybe you can kind of take us inside that and let us know what is it during that first week, that first month that you would need from an attorney from that point to be useful right away, and what’s the thing that they almost always forget to give you or to tell you?

Unknown: So I think my answer would almost be the same for both because I think the most important thing that they can give us is like access to their database or their e-file login and things like that, because they will ask me to sometimes file something and I’m like, I’ve never filed anything for you. I don’t know how to get into your system. So I would have to So there’s like time being wasted going back and forth, waiting for a reply. So just kind of setting either me up with an account with your firm through Odyssey or whatever e-filing system they use, or providing that login information to us from the beginning, that way I always have it on hand. There’s that, and just yeah, like contact. It seems like such simple things, but those are the things that get lost in translation always, or like just lost in these onboarding calls, is how do you want us to contact your clients, just things that also kind of keep their business running. So I would I would say that’s definitely one thing that attorneys forget to give us is like contact information of their people that they reach out to, or like opposing counsel, and how they want their emails structured. Those small, little tasks that will I don’t want to say make or break the case, but kind of just like help keep the case going that they’re working on.

Rebecca Bockstahler: And I think that those tasks are really important to allow you to represent the voice of the firm in a way that’s consistent across the board. So that’s key. Makes sense to me.

Unknown: Mhm.

Ron Bockstahler: Safiya, we’re kind of Let’s kind of go back to what I opened with, which was, you know, attorneys about about 5 hours a day aren’t getting They’re not billed, and they’re doing work. It’s important work, but it’s work that maybe they don’t need to do. You don’t have to have a law degree to do it. You know, can you talk to me in just a little bit, tell us about what you think some of that work is, and and could you handle that? I mean, obviously, I think you can handle it, but how you’d handle it, and and what’s a good way to get the attorneys to, you know, hand over the work? Like say, Hey, I don’t need to do this non-billable work, and I can be more efficient doing the billable work.

Unknown: That’s a good question. Cuz a lot of the work I myself do is billable to clients. So Okay. but I want to say like writing up a notice of filing letter, like technically that does get kind of billed back to clients, but sometimes attorneys don’t write them up and they will just send them to us and be like, Hey, can you file this? and then draft a quick notice of filing letter for me. And it’s such an easy You don’t even need a law degree. You don’t Cuz there’s a template like provided for you, so it’s more like filling in the gaps and stuff. It’s very quick, takes like probably 5 minutes to put together, and you just send it out. But it makes a difference in what you’re filing. For not billable, I’m

Ron Bockstahler: Well, you you okay, let me That’s even better, because I don’t think I understand all these things. So a lot of the work you’re doing is billable. Do the attorneys bill it to their clients, or do they understand that?

Unknown: I think they do bill it to their clients, yes, because every time that I do tell them what they’re doing, they let me know what the client is that they’re doing it for. That way, I can make sure to include that in the way I bill them, because, yeah, I I’m obviously working with attorneys. You know, every hour of their time is billable, but it’s like but it sometimes can get wasted working on things that can be handed off. And I think that’s where their struggle is realizing that they don’t need to spend time drafting a notice of filing letter when they can just hand it off to their paralegal. Or, a lot of them, like I said, don’t like to waste time organizing. Like I I’ve told you before too that I worked on a really big trial for a long time, put in a lot of hours for that, and I realized oh the attorney wasn’t really working on that trial, like preparing that trial, cuz they were too busy preparing like what they were going to actually say in trial, and all that background work was me and the associate doing together, and that was something that I learned that oh you know, like the lead attorney doesn’t really do these background stuff, and it was hard for her to pass it on, but she needed to because of the way like organizing it. When you’re going into trial, no one has time to dig for an exhibit. You want it right there, so the way we organize everything, all of that seems like such small tasks and you don’t really sometimes need a law degree to just organize exhibits because it’s just like a system, you know, that’s going to work for everyone. So being able to like pass those tasks on and yeah, just realize there is someone out there that can help you make your firm work smoother and more efficiently. Yeah, I don’t know if I’m answering that question the way Yeah, so you don’t

Rebecca Bockstahler: need a law firm or you don’t need a law degree, but you do need someone who understands

Unknown: what the

Rebecca Bockstahler: project is. So that makes sense. And you’ve kind of went into this a little bit, but when you look at the different firms that you work with, and you’re talking about some handoff, some don’t, so what do you think separates the attorneys that can get real leverage out of you and your talents and use you correctly and the ones that don’t? Like is it their systems, is it trust, is it something else? What do you think it might be?

Unknown: I think it might be trust, because the ones that do use me a lot more often are the ones that I’ve like ended up building connections with by talking to them. So it’s like, oh, like she’s in law school, she wants to be an attorney, like let me Cuz they always, I’ve also learned, attorneys love to give advice, which I guess makes sense that they’re They love giving advice, and That’s a whole nother subject. Yeah. Yep. Yep. They love giving advice and passing things on to Like, knowledge on to others. So once they hear that I’m in law school, they’re like, Oh my god, like, you should. There’s another attorney. She was like, You should just come shadow me one time when I’m in court, and like, take notes for me while I do my hearing. And I was like, Oh my god, that’s an amazing opportunity. I’d love to do that. So I did one time like go to court with her and I just watched her do her hearing, and after that, like, she started using me more often cuz I think she’d built like a relationship with me and saw how interested I was in the work that she was doing. So I think just making sure that they know that you’re more than capable of doing something. And I think that’s cuz there’s a lot that goes into the cases, and there’s other people’s sensitive information, so just being able to trust that you’re going to handle it with the same care they are. I think that’s usually where attorneys get afraid to pass things on.

Ron Bockstahler: Yeah. Can you give us a specific example, you know, names, details, keep it general, obviously, a matter where you moved something forward that would have stalled if you weren’t there, you know, what was the situation, what’d you do, and what did it save?

Unknown: Yeah, there was an emergency motion that needed to be filed because the defendant in that case or, yeah, the defendant in that case needed their case to be heard to the judge. And the attorney was out of town. So he had asked us to file it. And I love our system and I love our courts and stuff, but sometimes things don’t work the way that they need to be working, and it just kept getting rejected and I kept trying to figure it out with the clerk, and they’re like, I don’t know why it’s being rejected on our end. And I was like the attorney’s out of town. I’m not quite sure what to do cuz this was like new, so I was like, Let me just come in person and figure it out. So I walked down to the court and I went in person and I pushed to get this thing filed, got them a court date, which was exactly what he needed cuz it was an emergency motion, so it needed to be heard right away. And yeah, so that would have been stalled since they weren’t here in person. And if I wasn’t able to step in and walk down to the court for him and push it through with the clerk.

Ron Bockstahler: You know, so many attorneys today use remote paralegals, and what you just said is cuz you’re actually in the office, that made a big difference. Yes. Do you find that that’s the case quite often? I mean,

Unknown: Yeah, a lot of a lot of attorneys need us to like go file things in person, or someone needed a record expunged, and you can only submit that in person, all the documents. So, yeah. I mean, yes, I can draft the documents on my laptop from anywhere, and that work is technically more remote-based, but like once you have to actually take it to the court and interact with the clerks, and get the things filed, or get certified copies for certain stuff, you have to be in person for that, and it’s always good to have someone on site.

Rebecca Bockstahler: One of the things I really appreciate about you is, and it’s just your overall personality because you’re outgoing, and you like to chit-chat. But that serves you so well in so many ways in getting to know the attorneys, and building the relationships, and not being afraid to walk to figure out why something’s not working at the court, to talk to the clerks. It’s fantastic.

Unknown: Oh, thank you. It’s

Rebecca Bockstahler: fantastic. So if you walked into a new firm, or you had a new client joined tomorrow, and you looked at the first 30 days, what’s one system that you would maybe want to fix, and how would you fix it? What would you look at and be like, Let’s do this better?

Unknown: I think the way they organize everything. That’s another thing I’ve noticed talking to my attorney a lot, is that sometimes they are which makes complete sense, cuz you have so much going on. I know I get to a point like, look, right now, so on top of everything. Ask me in like 12 weeks when I’m nearing the end of my semester and finals. Everything’s a mess, you know? And that’s their daily life, so I can’t imagine being easy to stay on top of everything. But I think that’s why having a paralegal is so important, cuz you can stay organized with everything. I know before I worked at this specific job, I worked with an immigration attorney, and she was a solo practitioner, too. And she had so many cases, so many documents, and I just couldn’t do it anymore. So I was like, let me And she had an organization system to put in place that worked for her, but there was still things getting lost because I worked remotely, so it was like hard for us to keep track of everything. So I’m like, let’s create a universal system that works for both of us, and we can both have access to. So we organized all the documents, organized it based on each client, and sometimes it’s hard for attorneys, like when they have physical copies, to do that too. So kind of having a filing system put in place in person, at their office, and everything’s online too these days. So having an online version and a physical version, I don’t know, those things like I really feel like make your practice so much more easier once you know where everything is and how to access everything. So I think I would, again, it’s not really related to the law, but like organizing things just make everything go smoother.

Rebecca Bockstahler: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense to me because just kind of a side bar, like having a system that everybody understands, because when Ron and I were in the same office, and we used to have paper everything, which now we don’t have, but when he files things, he does newest up front. I do newest in the back.

Unknown: And

Rebecca Bockstahler: neither one of us were really willing to give up our style. And so it was it wasn’t it could have been a lot better. And so, yeah, those are things you have to talk about and figure out with somebody before before things get a little bit messy. So, anyway, my little side thing there.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, we’ve got it now. We understand how we’re doing Right.

Rebecca Bockstahler: We do it electronically. much better.

Ron Bockstahler: You’ve spent four and a half years watching the practice of law from the inside as a paralegal. Now you’re a year, a year and a half, a year, I guess, into law school. So I want to ask kind of question from a different way is: What did you see as a paralegal that made you decide to want to be an attorney?

Unknown: That’s a great question. So funny enough, when I was in high school, I did not want to do anything law-related. I mean, it was always in the back of my mind because people told me I talk so much. Why don’t you just go be a lawyer? And I was like, I don’t know, because I don’t have any lawyers in my family. So I never thought about it. I actually love baking as like a side thing, so I wanted to open my own bakery, and I was like on the path to going to culinary school. I got a scholarship and everything. then I just didn’t want to do it anymore. I was like, You know what? I want to be a social worker. Such a random switch. And then from there, I was like, You know what? Maybe I should be an attorney. Because I can see so much like things in people’s lives, like I can I know like I’m considered a minority, but I feel like I’m very privileged, with the way that my parents raised me. So, I was like, I had my difficulties growing up, but I also feel like I have the ability to help people. So, I wanted to help them in a way legally, you know? Like, use the law to our advantage, almost. So, I switched to wanting to be a lawyer, but I had, again, no lawyers in my family, so I was like, I don’t really know what that means entirely. So, I started working with that immigration firm, and I as a paralegal, and I’m like, oh my god, like, the smallest thing that I do makes such a big difference in like my client’s life, which I didn’t realize. Like, it was just filling out a form, and they would thank me so much for it. And I’m like, I literally took five minutes on this, you know? But for them, it was make or break. And I realized, oh, yeah. This This is definitely something I want to do, because those small things that you do in this field really changes the person’s life, and I really want to help people. I want to help like give everyone a chance to their constitutional right of having a lawyer, you know? Having someone defend them or, yeah, just like speak their case for them. And if I talk so much already, sometimes I might as well use it for good. So, yeah. I just learned that these small things really add up and make can make a difference in someone’s life, and I wanted to just be able to do that.

Rebecca Bockstahler: Yeah. Well, you’ve kind of talked about You mentioned looking at your organization today versus 12 weeks from now, but let’s dive a little bit into that. So, you’re doing a full-time paralegal 9-to-5 job, and then you’re doing law school all at the same time. So, what is it that you’ve done to be able to manage that? Like, what systems do you use, or what have you had to stop doing? And I’m not necessarily looking for like inspirational, make it sound easy. Like, what What How do you make sure that it’s not a grind and you’re taking care of yourself and being that busy?

Unknown: I think, funny enough, it’s advocating for myself. Knowing like when to set a boundary or knowing when to ask for help, which is something that I struggled a lot with growing up. So that’s a new thing that I’m learning, is when to tell people like, okay, I’m very overwhelmed right now, like I’m think I’m gonna need some help. And also just being available to help other people too. But I’m not gonna lie, it sucks a lot trying to, like, deal with a full-time job and then also go to school after. Be present while you’re in school, because now I have to retain that information. So it is really, really hard, but I don’t want that to stop anyone else from doing it because I also think it’s manageable if you put in those like boundaries for yourself, know when it’s appropriate to like, okay, I can take a break now, and taking those breaks, too. Organization is a really big one. I don’t think my organization system is what everybody would agree on, because doesn’t make sense, but it makes sense in my head. So, yeah, just kind of like being able to keep everything in order in your head, advocating for what you need, and asking for help, too. I think that was big. And my mom. I love my mom. She is the one She’s the reason I’m, like, breathing right now, because I honestly would have collapsed a long time ago, but she does a lot for me. I don’t gotta worry about food, because she cooks for me. So, it’s those small things like having a good support system. And then the people here in Amata, too, like our manager Tamara, she, all the time, is, like, checking in on me, making sure that I’m okay. You guys constantly ask me how I’m doing in school and, like, making sure I’m okay. So just having people around you that care, that kind of keeps me going, too. Like it’s like, okay, these people want me to succeed, so I want to keep going, too. So yeah, so I appreciate that.

Ron Bockstahler: Absolutely. Let’s get let’s make it a little tough question for you, so let’s get a little sensitive area. The Bureau of Labor Statistics puts the median paralegal wage at about 62 9, $62,900 as of May of 25, with the bottom 10% under about 44,000, the top 10% about 101,000, and it projects little to no change in paralegal employment through 2035, even with roughly 40,800 openings a year from turnover. The question: everybody points to AI to explain the flat line. You are inside the work every day. What has actually changed in your day-to-day, and what is the part of your job that nobody is automating? Dun dun dun.

Rebecca Bockstahler: I know. That’s a That’s a Those numbers, like you have to process that. Yeah, I was just like, It’s

Unknown: a lot of numbers, and I was trying to figure it out. I think a big one is legal research. As a paralegal, I do a lot of legal research for clients, and AI can help you organize your thoughts, organize what you’re reading, maybe even help explain to you what you’re reading, but it doesn’t know all the case law. It doesn’t know all the case law in your jurisdiction, and all that things, all those things are relevant to whatever research you’re doing. Not every case is going to work in every jurisdiction. You know, like I can’t use a, I don’t know, California case here for Illinois all the time unless it was like in the higher courts. So all of that stuff matters, like how So I Yeah, I just feel like AI isn’t able to really do that or like pinpoint those things unless you are so good at asking it questions that will frame it. But even then you need to know what you’re talking about to phrase those questions. And yeah, I think that’s one thing that AI can never really take away from a paralegal is the research aspect of like being able to really hone down on a case, understand what you’re reading, understand how it benefits what you need. And yeah, I mean it’s very helpful in the areas that it is, like I said, like organizing your thoughts or explaining something in simpler terms, cuz the you’re going to be reading cases from like the 1900s. The jargon makes no sense sometimes. 1900s. Yeah, like I know for law school, I’m reading cases from the 1800s, and I’m like none of these words make sense to me. So I will sometimes throw it into AI and be like, Can you explain it to me in today’s terms? Like I understand the concepts I’m supposed to pick up, but like not always fully because yeah, again, like I said, there’s words that just don’t make sense. But things like that, like it can be very helpful and just kind of knowing when to use it to your advantage. But then also knowing that like it will never fully take over you as a human because you have the ability to critically think and know when and how to comprehend a case and use it to your advantage.

Rebecca Bockstahler: Yeah. Yeah,

Unknown: makes sense. It does make a lot of sense. I don’t know. Sometimes I ramble, and did I go and answer the question?

Rebecca Bockstahler: You absolutely did. So let’s take this to maybe for our listeners who are part of a solo firm or small firm, they’re convinced that they cannot afford a paralegal. If they’re using a fractional one, where do they start, and what do you think the first thing they hand off should be? Where do they start? I think kind of just intro The type of law you do also matters, like the area of law. I know if it’s like family law, there’s so much that goes into it and stuff, and just doing something simple as legal research could be a great way to start off anyone who’s doing like using us as fractional support, and I think you do save a lot of money because it’s just you

Unknown: will not be able to do it alone unless you have help. Like it kind of goes back to the knowing when to ask for help, and I think everyone can use some assistance, and that doesn’t make you any less of a lawyer or any less competent in any sort of way because it’s just it’s so much. Like people’s lives are in your hands, and you want to make sure you’re able to deliver exactly what they need. And coming to us, using our help, like I think it’s money well spent, and I don’t think it’s too expensive comparably to hiring an associate or a full-time paralegal because our services allow to use as many hours as you need fit. Like we have the 40-hour program, which I could see attorneys needing that much time in a month because not everything is always constant there. So just yeah, I think legal research is like the first thing that we can get into, and then from there going to know more about the cases that they’re working on and how what we just learned through the legal research is going to benefit them, and things like that, just tying everything together. Yeah, that’s cool.

Ron Bockstahler: Last words, Safiya, anything you want to add, let us know, anything you want to talk about real quick?

Unknown: Oh my God, I don’t know.

Ron Bockstahler: What’s the favorite thing you- What’s your favorite experience so far in law school?

Unknown: My favorite thing You know, surprisingly, I really am liking constitutional law. It’s it’s the c- class that I’m reading the old cases in, but I don’t know if you guys have ever watched Hamilton, I love Hamilton, but

Rebecca Bockstahler: I’m

Unknown: sitting in class just the songs are just playing in my head while my professor is talking to me about the Federalist Papers and Declaration of Independence and things like that. And I just think it’s really cool to learn about the history of how our laws were made and where they come from, and just the Constitution in general, cuz so many things in our world is changing, and how they changed parts of their legal doctrine and how wh- like where they ended up and how they ended up. Just it’s interesting, and I feel like even though it’s back in the day, how applicable it is to today’s life is,

Rebecca Bockstahler: yeah,

Unknown: nice to know. And yeah, and I just like And it’s also the least like legal class, because it feels more like a history class, so it’s like easier for me to retain somehow, but I do really enjoy it.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, that’s cool. Safiya, thank you for being on the show. We enjoy working with you, and we’re blessed to have you in our lives. So, thank you so much. Wish you all the best in school. And, of course, we love having you at Amata. So, thanks for everything you’re doing, and you’re supporting a lot of great clients.

Rebecca Bockstahler: She’s a gem.

Ron Bockstahler: If today’s conversation got you thinking about the work you are still doing yourself, please look, reach out to Safiya. Reach out to someone at Amata. We have fractional paralegals that know what they’re doing, and they can assist you. If you’ve enjoyed today’s show, please subscribe, leave us a review, or share it with a colleague who could use it. The 1958 Lawyer is brought to you by Amata. For more than 30 years, Amata has helped- I know, I know, I’m going to record this someday, so I gotta keep reading it until I do. For 30 years, Amata has helped law firms of all sizes do more with less, build it on our five pillars: fractional support staff, virtual office options, office space, legal community, and marketing support. Whether you’re a solo practitioner just starting out, or an established firm looking to right-size your overhead, Amata gives you the infrastructure of a big firm without the big firm price tag. Learn more at amataoffices.com. Thanks for

Strickland Bonner: listening to The 1958 Lawyer. If you liked the show, tell a friend. And please subscribe, rate, and review us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you’d like to hear more about Ron, Rebecca, or Amata, go to amataoffices.com. That’s amataoffices.com. All the links are also in the show notes.