Wochner Law Firm LLC – Corinne Cantwell Heggie

Strickland Bonner: So your lawyer and your clients are squeezing you for lower fees. How do you put more cash in your pocket? We want to expose you to new ways of practicing law. Endless hours with no home life and a lease on an expensive office are so 1999. It's time to make a change for the better. Here to help you with that are your hosts Ron Boxdollar and Kirsten Mayfield. Welcome to the 1958 Lawyer Podcast.

Ron Bockstahler: Welcome to the show. I'm your co-host Ron Bockstahler,

Kirsten Mayfield: and I'm Kirsten Mayfield, and we have with us today Corinne Cantwell Heggie. She's principal with Walkner Law Firm. She's been an attorney for 20 years, and she's one of those powerful women in law we love talking to on this podcast. In 2020 Chicago lawyer Chicago Daily Law Bulletin had its inaugural class of the 50 salute women in law. Corinne was one of those named. Before Woshner, she worked in big law, and she was counsel at the largest majority female-owned law firm in Chicago, which was very cool. She was also the immediate past president of the Women's Bar Association of Illinois. But I would be remiss not to also speak about what she does as an attorney. And she specializes in estate planning. She's an advocate to protect your property, regardless of your marital status, your age, your income level, your tax bracket, which is a great and worthy cause. I've known so many people who have not been able to grieve properly because they were suddenly estate planning, and that's insane to me. Kryn, thank you so much for joining us today.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Well, Kirsten, thanks for that introduction. Thanks for having me, and Ron, also thanks to you for having me.

Kirsten Mayfield: Now I have to say, you've got a very important other role. You are the merit badge counselor for your Boy Scout troop. It's Troop 156 Shout out to everybody there. I'm sure the boys are all going to listen to this. So, what are some of your favorite merit badges?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yes. Well, I have a few. I love all the citizenship in the nation in your community, badges just because it really allows the young men, because we only have men in our in our troop right now, to get out into their community and see how it works, who's behind it, learn about the village, how it runs. I also like the merit badges that speak to things that I really kind of like to do. I can one comes to mind is the art merit badge, which is really great, and you can do it virtually, which has been a plus with a lot of the museums giving access to certain exhibits or resident exhibits that they have online.

Kirsten Mayfield: That's so cool. You know, I okay. So I went to film on. I love Boy Scouts. My little brother is both Boy Scouts. My oldest little brother got his Eagle Scout. Just tons of fun. But you know, I didn't think about how being in Boy Scouts and having these virtual opportunities during the the pandemic. That's so lovely and wonderful, and something that's like if you're a parent, you're dealing with trying to get them to school and all this, having the ability to do these extracurriculars virtually. That's that was probably like really good for those those kids.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, I agree. Kirsten has kind of been a game changer. It was really last spring when at least our part of of our sliver of the world was really locked down. It gave something for our household because I have two scouts to do and kind of I don't want to say pass the time, but collectively work towards something that didn't relate to getting the schoolwork turned in and the tests submitted. So it was definitely a silver lining, and it was wonderful that we were able to find ways to continue to move forward with the merit badges and go through the coursework in a virtual setting. Thanks to the museums, for instance, with respect to the art merit badge, and then you know the citizenship series of badges with the people who help make our government local and state and federal run.

Kirsten Mayfield: You almost sound like a Leslie Knope with the Parks and Rec with the community merit badge too. I love that.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: People, I just think it's so important to understand how your community works, and you know the boys aren't paying taxes, but why there's this infrastructure, and then it always culminates when you're talking with me with the fact that we live in a democracy that we are so privileged to have a vote, and that you've got to vote, got

Kirsten Mayfield: to do it. Yeah, it's good good skills to to embody people with.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, I'm glad there was good scout activity going on during the the lockdowns that we had going on

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: has a lot of great adults who give a lot of time and energy and guidance to these young men and I mean I'll just say it again it was really nice at least in our house to have something to work towards together that was. Fun. You were learning something, but you didn't really know you were doing it, and wasn't related to to school.

Ron Bockstahler: No, I would say this past winter is the first time in, gosh, at least four years that I haven't been out there polar bear camping, trying to get those badges for the boys. So, oh

Kirsten Mayfield: yeah.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Well, I mean, you don't even need a polar bear camp. I mean, I have two of my my guys are going camping this weekend, and ironically, we're talking about it last night at dinner. My middle guy said, you know, right before lockdown, they went to Starved Rock because it was a campout weekend, and he froze his toes off. It was so cold. Unknown: Yeah. So you don't have to go looking far for a polar bear experience. Certainly in in

Illinois. Ron Bockstahler: Let's

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: north of 80.

Ron Bockstahler: Let's jump into estate planning. Having you on the show made me feel a little guilty, as I haven't completed my estate planning documents, the renewed estate planning documents. So talk to us about estate planning a little bit, and let's talk about how do you get clients like me to actually complete the process.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I'd love to talk about that, Ron. So thanks for asking. You know, I think estate planning is something that's a big behemoth and maybe an elephant in the room for a lot of people. So when you work with our firm, we really try to make it easy and accessible for a couple of reasons. One, it's it's really not about your mortality; it's about your legacy, and and and making sure you have control of where your hard-earned assets, whatever they are, get to where they need to go or where you want them to go. And two, it it estate planning is just not for high net worth, high tax bracket people who are married. It couldn't be further from the truth. If you own property, I don't care if it's a savings account. I don't care if it's a 401k I don't care if it's a bond you received for your first communion, there are tools for you to protect it to make sure one you can name someone to help you make decisions about that property if you're living and you can't do it, and two, where you want it to go when you're not here. So that's what we focus on at our office, really helping people understand that it's you know kind of debunking it or flipping the script on estate planning, and trying to make it easy and accessible.

Kirsten Mayfield: So in the the mode of that, Ron says he hasn't gotten his stuff in order. I'm younger than him. I don't even like what is what is my property? What what do I have? Because I you know I rent an apartment. I don't have land. I don't have a house. So to me, I don't need to get anything in order. But I do have the items you just mentioned.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah. So Kirsten, a great tool for you would be a property power of attorney that would allow you to name someone you know, like, and trust to make decisions and help you manage that property. If you are living and you are unable to do it, it could be very powerful. There's a lot of wealth that is accumulated in deferred income plans, so 401ks, 403bs, IRAs, SEP IRAs, SEP 401ks, and even if you don't do trust planning, okay, with a power of attorney, you can name someone who can make decisions about that property, about that wealth, if you're living and you can't do it yourself, I mean that's huge. And in Illinois, the lawmakers have a form for you to follow.

Kirsten Mayfield: I never thought about it, but like, let's say I was unable all of a sudden. I, you know, I would just assume they'd say, "Oh yeah, like husband can handle it, but that's not necessarily the case.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Well, the law will tell you what batting order, who's going to bat, and when. But typically, these situations, Kirsten and Ron, are not like low stress, unemotional. If someone is coming to have to make these decisions for you, or, or you know, you're out of commission. It's a, it's a who's on first kind of situation. So with a property power of attorney, you can have that batting order set, so there's no confusion. But to your point, Kirsten, they might get to your husband, they might get to your parents. They might get to your adult child, but that's going to depend on how energized the person at your bank, the HR department at your employer, if it's an HR, if it's a employer provided 401k, is energized to help your team. Husband, family, and that means you know, child, spouse, partner, whomever get answers so they can get into the driver's seat.

Kirsten Mayfield: Yeah, and that's the last thing anyone wants to do when they're trying to deal with their emotions and life that just drastically changed.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, agree. I mean, I see it. I know it. I know it. And even in situations where people have, you know, they've got, they're close with their siblings, or they, you know, they have a spouse. Every bank is different, and that's not bad or good. It's just a fact. Every life insurance company is different. Every HR department is different. Have the document set up so that person knows where the document is, and two can say, "Here's the property power of attorney. Here is the the the representation that this person cannot make these decisions. I'm in the driver's seat. Please send me anything you need for me to accept this role to put the hat on my head, but let's get rolling.

Ron Bockstahler: So, talk a little about how you infuse technology into your firm because this is a personal area of law, at least for me. I mean, I you know I haven't done mine because there's like 24 different documents. It's a little overwhelming if I'm not sitting with my attorney in person going through

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: them. Agreed. So, we have tried to incorporate technology, and I will say we have. And for better or for worse, the pandemic helped us kind of normalize its use in terms of connecting and keeping up with clients. We are looking forward to being able to get back in person with our clients, but I think for legacy clients, clients that have been with the firm, we we brought them along, and and they may have had that opportunity to talk with us and meet us in person. So it's just more getting them comfortable with, I'm still Corinne over Zoom, or I'm still Corinne over FaceTime. I'm still Corinne in Google Meets, and I I do think where it's been something that has been normalized because of COVID with new clients, right? New engagements. It's it it might take one or two meetings to see if we're going to be a fit for that person, and we recognize we're not a fit for everyone, but we found it to be extremely helpful and actually help us bring our clients along. Not because we said, "Hey, you've got to use technology, but because we got to be able to do this to help serve you, and we want to serve you?

Ron Bockstahler: So, in when we talk technology, are you using some kind of a secured? How do you share documents? I guess that's what I want to know.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: With secure with secured PDFs, I mean, we're on a cloud, and our cloud is secured and backed up. So that's how we do file, you know, file management. And we do have. I mean, we're not we're not paperless. It would be great to be paperless, but our our paper footprint because we're in the cloud has greatly diminished. So with secured PDFs, and and we leverage and if you know if someone can't do a secured PDF, we'll do you know we'll work with whatever platform they have, we're pretty nimble in that regard. We'll meet the. We want it to be easy for the clients. So if they're using a different method, or they're comfortable with Dropbox, great. We'll go there if that's where you want to be.

Ron Bockstahler: Now, are wet signatures still required in real in estate planning documents?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah. So that's a great question. We were really lucky because in March of last year, Governor Pritzker signed a an emergency order to allow virtual notaries to take place. You know there were about 10 criteria, and if you satisfy them, you were able to continue to you know do business with papers that require notarized signatures. That actually is that was codified and became law, which is great. In July, a lot of documents, though, Ron, still require wet signatures. But we leverage digital where we can, which is not, you know, it's not as many as at a closing, like a real estate closing. But I still think if anyone's done a real estate closing, the buyers because they're working with the lenders most of the most of the time. They they have to be there and provide wetness signatures on on you know two inch stack of documents. So they're not gone totally obsolete, but the virtual notary has really helped kind of lower the lower the hurdle there.

Kirsten Mayfield: Yeah,

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I think

Ron Bockstahler: funny you mentioned buying house. We did we refi'd our condo, and they sent someone to our home to do all the documents, or at least they scheduled that. But then at that period of time, and the condos in Indiana. You actually had have a witness, so they had to reschedule at at a title company's office, and we had to physically go there, which I thought was just crazy. But, and I think they've since rescinded that law. You don't need a witness, but during that short period of time, how things change.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, I mean that's I will say I am glad you brought up the witness piece, Ron. Because when people try and do it yourself or or go online and and get these documents completed, you know, if you don't dot the i's and cross your t's, and crossing a t would be witnesses. How many witnesses are required? What are the requirements for a witness? Right. That's where you know you can sign documents that might not necessarily work when you need them to.

Ron Bockstahler: Let's talk. So we got a lot of attorneys listening, and that's one of the bigger issues where attorneys don't actually go and do their own estate planning documents, don't have a living will. You know, what are the basic minimums that they at least need to have in place today, no matter what age they are?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Right. Well, we've we kind of talked about a property power of attorney, which is going to allow you to name someone to handle your property, be it bank accounts, 401k's real estate, sign your tax return if you're living and you cannot do it yourself. Staying in that property lane, a will is really important, even if you don't have children, because in Illinois, a will is where you will articulate or identify the guardians for your minor children. But more importantly, a will allows you to identify your property, where you want it to go, be it an individual, individuals, a charity when you're not here, and critically, so critically, identify an executor, and state that that executor, if he or she or they have to go to court to probate an asset, they can be excused to have to pay a bond. I mean, the number three and four should probably be one and two, in the order of. I mean, that is a huge a huge way to eliminate confusion and asset depreciation because you've got to pay the bond to get to court, and the judge is often not going to excuse it if it doesn't say in black and white in your will. So that's why a will is important. And then I'm gonna I'm going to switch into the healthcare lane not because I'm a doctor, but because you need to sign a healthcare power of attorney so you can name someone who can help your your medical team make decisions for your medical treatment if you're living and you can't make those decisions yourself. So at the very least, you need powers of attorney, healthcare and property, and a will.

Ron Bockstahler: Yeah, the living will always, you know, someone to help the doctors because you don't want to put that pressure on your family members, or you know, that's just a lot of stress to put on a family member. Plan for it.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, well, well put. I can't. That's it. Never easy.

Ron Bockstahler: It's

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: never not stressful if someone has to make medical decisions for you.

Ron Bockstahler: Absolutely. Let's kind of jump into. You've built a great career. I guess first of all, why did you go into this area of law?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: It's so rewarding to help people unravel a question or an issue that they have been unable to solve or haven't been able to get a practical answer to.

Ron Bockstahler: Okay, did you practice in other areas because you were with the big firm prior to kind of on your way to your own firm with your husband?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Right. Yeah, I've I've had the benefit and the great fortune I think of working in a large national law firm and then a a boutique majority women-owned firm, and I've always enjoyed working with individuals. And I had along the way over my career, I've always done work with individuals, but because of the nature of where I practice, I did a lot of work with corporate legal departments in in in all lanes, counseling, pre-litigation settlement, and litigation, and I think that gives me an ability to see issues from a 360 degree standpoint. But I have to say, from day one, it was always great to work with individuals or families or business owners who you know started the business or came into a business and and were able to make it soar and grow.

Ron Bockstahler: So, in your career, you utilized you've been very involved with the bar association. You're immediate past president of the Women's Bar Association of Illinois. Can you let's talk about how that's helped your career and what some attorneys that maybe aren't so involved, you know, why should they get involved?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, I'd love to talk about the Women's Bar Association of Illinois, Ron. It's an organization that's near and dear to my heart. I was a member when I, you know, was a newly licensed lawyer, largely because of a wonderful capital partner at the first. That I worked at. Her name is Jennifer Sender. She was in line to be the president of the organization, and she was always so gracious in terms of walking the floor where the associate sat and said, "You know, the firm has a ticket for this. Come join me. Come, you know, she no pressure. If you can make it, let me know. I'll see you there. And whenever you came, she might have had 10,000 other people in the room she had to speak to, but she always was like, "Karinn, thank you for coming. I'm really glad you could be here. I never forgot that. I still keep in touch with Jennifer, and so that was a great impression. And and I had the pleasure of being at the firm when she was the president of the Women's Bar Association. So we got to go to a lot of events, meet a lot of really wonderful leaders, not only in the legal community but in the in the in the the larger community in

Illinois. Ron Bockstahler: So it kind of makes me think when you first started, you know, that's how you got in, and your firm paid for it, but what if you're a solo or a you know smaller firm? Is it worth paying for out of your pocket?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I think it is. I think it absolutely is, and let me tell you why. Because bar associations, you know, help individual lawyers build muscles to network, and you know, if you're a solo, fine yourself. Or if you're at a small firm, yourself and your firm. And then it creates a really natural platform for you to discuss what you do and why you love it. It's it's just that basic. And you know, when I say it to young lawyers or to individuals who are not sure, right? If they're going to pay out of pocket to continue not only their membership with WBAI but any other bar association. I always challenge them to think about that. That's not nothing.

Kirsten Mayfield: And you also you you said that you talk to Jennifer and you keep in touch with her because of these personable skills, because she was a higher level person, she came around, she saw, like, spoke to you as a human, she looked you in the eye, she remembered you. Those little micro skills, I feel like those are something you would probably be gaining from a bar association if you're not a solo attorney as well, or if you are a solo attorney, you don't get those interactions.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Absolutely, Kirsten. I mean, you're learning. If you if you stick your hand up and you and you join a bar association, I commend you, and I also would encourage you to join a committee, or join an event committee, or you know a small group committee, or go to a CLE. You're going to go there, and you're gonna, you know, maybe perfect your elevator pitch or learn to talk to people. Learn who who could be strategic partners for you. Who do you like? Who's gonna be a colleague if you just need to vent and you can't do it to a colleague at work or your you know your significant other or your roommates? Yeah, there are so many soft skills that one can learn from joining a bar association and showing up.

Kirsten Mayfield: Showing up-that's key, right? That's where people fail and think this isn't working for me.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, I agree. I mean, absolutely. But you know, I hear time and time again, and I remind people because people told it to me, and my parents told this to me. No one's going to care as much about you and your career as you are.

Ron Bockstahler: So true. You know, you mentioned committees.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Got to get into it. You got to lean into it because, and it doesn't have to be 100% every day, but you've got to come back to that as your guiding your guiding post, and you got to lean into it. You got to stick your hand up, and you got to get comfortable. And I feel this way for particularly young women and men who are in large law firms or mid-sized law firms. You better get comfortable advocating for yourself or making asks. And I'm not saying coming out of out at jump and saying I need a bigger bonus if you don't have the hours, you know, some good work done behind you. I mean, you got to get, you got to learn your craft, and you got to get your skills. You got to build up the ability to be like a legal ninja, but at the same time, you got to start sticking up your hand and asking for opportunities. What is the worst someone's going to say? No, forget it. Fine. No is just no for right now. It's not no forever.

Kirsten Mayfield: Did you ever have a fear of no, or was this like easier? Yeah, all the

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: time. But so what? I was like, no one's going to do this if I don't do it. If I don't ask, no one's going to be thinking. Oh, Corinne would like to do this. I can see her at the end of this conference table, and I know she wants this opportunity. I'm

Ron Bockstahler: thinking I've been working for over 30 years, and I still have to fear and know from time to time. So,

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: yeah, I'm not saying like I I love it. I have a.

Ron Bockstahler: You you mentioned committees, and I remember my first board position, and I I think I was on that board for two years before I decided either get to get off the board or get involved. So I started joining committees, and it changed everything for me. I started you know getting involved with people, different. You know it was like wow, why didn't I do this from the get go? So yeah, raise your hand and advocate for yourself. Get involved.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: But I think you raise a good point with that, Ron. I mean, you don't have to do it right away. You know, everyone's got an on-ramp, and you've got to kind of get your sea legs, sea legs underneath you, and kind of see what works. See if it's a fit for you, right? If this, you know, a lot of times we join organizations and we might not know it's in the inner workings, but it takes a while. So give yourself grace too, because this does not happen overnight.

Kirsten Mayfield: So where did you like start in? Like, how did you approach it? Because as a person who's more of an introvert, I could see myself joining a committee and then going to like, or going joining a bar association, going to like one meeting and one thing, and being like not getting myself in there. So how did you embed yourself into this bar association? Because you obviously did it well. You became a president,

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: right? It's it it it was a it was a marathon, not a sprint, and that's why I say to really any lawyer, you know, you got to give yourself grace when you're starting something new or trying to advocate for yourself, because you've got to get your voice and you've got to get practice. But I was active and and more so going to events for the social piece when I was a younger lawyer, and then candidly, you know, when I started having children, I mean, it was bar association work went on the back burner because there just wasn't enough time in the day for me, as I saw it. And I, I did try to do at least one thing that was, or two things that were business development networking every day, Monday through Friday, even through when I was, you know, expecting my children and on maternity leave. Did I hit every day? No, but I really tried to do that. So I had to take a little step back, and I have to say that if it hadn't been for my younger one of my younger sister, who also is a lawyer, she had just passed the bar and was just getting kind of into the bar association because I had done it, and she was great. I mean, she would just show up. It was just after I had my third my my third my third son, and she's like, "I saw. I'm in the lobby of your building, and John knows you're with me, so I'll see you in five minutes.

Kirsten Mayfield: She set it up for you. She was just like, "You're coming with me.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: So that was a great, but it didn't take. I mean, she had to do it maybe two or three times, and I was like, "Okay, she's right, because I do remember at the time working in a large firm and you know just like standing outside my office bank, waiting at the printer, and just thinking, "Wow, everyone here is smiling and happy, and their hair is washed, and

Kirsten Mayfield: the little things.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: And I kind of felt a little bit isolated. Now, listen, that's all me. That's all me. But it was really great to get back and be active at the Women's Bar Association because I went to these events and I was like, these are my people.

Kirsten Mayfield: And you had a person in your life who knew it, and she was like driving for you because while you say, and it's great advice from your dad. No one's going to advocate for you, basically, other than you. When you do build those colleagues, friendships, and obviously sisters. You're born best friends in my. Oh yeah, I mean, I've got an older sister. We're just

Ron Bockstahler: yeah,

Kirsten Mayfield: but once you build them, they do help you when you're you're not able to help yourself as much. So

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: yeah, you need a hype team.

Kirsten Mayfield: Yeah, that's a hype team. It's a great way to have it. Okay, so checklist as a young attorney, build a hype team.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: You do, and it'll make you easier. It'll help you be accountable, but like in a fun, nice way.

Kirsten Mayfield: Yeah.

Ron Bockstahler: Let's lead into why you were the president at the Women's Bar Association of Illinois. You or the bar celebrated 100 years of suffrage, right? Women's rights to vote.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: That's right. We celebrated the 100th anniversary of the 19th Amendment's passage, which gave women the right to vote.

Ron Bockstahler: And what did you do that was outstanding? I know you worked with other associations, other bars. So you know, talk to your own horn a little bit about what you did there.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Well, so that year we did a lot of partnering with bar associations, not only at the local level but at the national level, so we did a we celebrated the passage of the 19th Amendment with a luncheon that we partnered with the Black Women Lawyers Association of Greater Chicago. And the Illinois State Bar Association's women's group, and so we jointly put on the event. It was a full house, and we were lucky enough to have two federal district court judges engage in a fireside chat during the luncheon, it was Chief Judge Rebecca Palmeyer and Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman. So that was wonderful. That was kind of the kickoff event, not so much for the 19th Amendment, but just for the solidarity for the legal community. The Women's Bar Association partnered with Lagback and then Alliance Bernstein to put on the first diversity and inclusion accredited CLE in Illinois in July of 2019 around the issue of the the the law and what it says and does and what it means for our transgender colleagues, not only lawyers but just the transgender community at large. So that was, and we were supported by the Chicago Chamber of Commerce as well. So that was really powerful partnerships. And then finally, right before right before lockdown, we had a spring summit for women in the law, and we partnered with the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession to have a day long event that Chief Judge Palmeyer hosted at the Dirksen Building, where we tackled you know issues that are unique to women as they matriculate through their legal career, and I kicked off the event moderating a panel that was that included Paulette Brown, who is a powerhouse and just a wonderful lawyer and person, and she is the chief diversity and inclusion officer at Lack Lord, and Kelly Corley, who was just retired from the position of general counsel for Division Discover Financial Services, located in River Woods. We talk about two women who who live every single day, not even probably thinking about it now, trying to make the legal profession better, not only for women but for everyone who's who's practicing in it, regardless of where they're practicing-be a legal department, a law firm, public interest, a government entity.

Ron Bockstahler: So we only got a couple minutes left. So one thing I want to touch on and kind of get your input. Some of the younger attorneys listening is, how can we break the glass ceiling on women and minorities that are kind of getting started today? What can they do to, you know, maybe change the way it's been?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I think you have to stick your hand up and ask, and then grab each other's hands and move together, because together we will go farther, and not to-I don't want people, young lawyers, to ignore their unique characteristics that they bring to the profession. So very important, but there's so much good that can be done if you reach across the aisle and grab the hands of other people who are similarly situated, or maybe not similarly situated, to advocate for each other.

Ron Bockstahler: Okay.

Kirsten Mayfield: So, just one more question: Why did you go into that women-owned law firm? Was it more organic, or was it? I want to be surrounded by like-minded women in law.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Yeah, that's a good question, Kirsten. I wanted to see how law was practiced in a in a in a smaller setting, and it was very organic. The one of the founding partners, Stephanie Sharf, had been introduced to me by one of the at the time chief diversity officer at the law firm where I was practicing, Leslie Richards Yellen, who is a wonderful, wonderful woman, a wonderful human being that I am very lucky to have ever had the pleasure of calling a partner. And they had a need, and I had a curiosity, and it was a fit in that regard. I also knew that I was going to kind of be able to take my networking and my client book building skills to another level if I was doing it collaboratively with other women to kind of hone more of an authentic voice. That's not to say that I wasn't doing it authentically, but I worked with a lot of men, and that was you know listen I had a lot of male sponsors, a lot of male cheerleaders at my firm. I have a cheerleader in my husband, so there wasn't anything I didn't think I could do, but I didn't do a lot. Of business development with other women, and so I knew there was going to be a little bit of an. I wanted to know more about that, and I knew in addition to do being able to do great legal work at a boutique firm, I would be able to probably kind of deepen that skill and hone that skill in a different way, which proven which proved to be the case.

Kirsten Mayfield: That's amazing. I, you know, you don't always think about these things, but it is very like it seems like if you just you started at a bar association, you started with women, you just put yourself into that world, and you said it was an organic move into something that allowed you to achieve, which is an awesome end goal. Working with your husband every day, being a partner with him, and I think that just it's it's lovely talking to people like you who are just showing the different paths. Because I think when you're just trying to make it yourself, it would just seem impossible. So thank you for talking to us about it. It's it's great to hear.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Well, thank you for having me, and I just want everyone to know that I had a lot of setbacks. A lot of times, it's a jungle gym. Take five steps back, 20 steps forward, two steps sideways, and you might fall off. But if you stay committed to putting yourself first and advocating for yourself, doing good work, learning your craft, of course, sky's the limit.

Ron Bockstahler: Let's let's kind of finish up with our last question. What's the one thing in the business of law you would like to see change over the next five years?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I want tech, and I know everyone who comes, all your guests are saying this, but I feel like from the estate planning world, I can say I want tech to be here to stay to help us be able to not only connect with our clients, partners, but connect with our clients. And I don't want in person to go away, but I want it to become completely normalized.

Ron Bockstahler: All right, I think we're all on the board with that. Definitely want to see that happen. I know just in my life, there's some things that the pandemic has actually brought, you know, into my life that I don't want to lose.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Agreed.

Ron Bockstahler: I love working. I'm at my house right now, and you know, I got five young kids. It it a lot easier to spend more time with them when I'm not traveling every day of the week.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Agreed. Agreed.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, Corinne, what's the best way for our listeners to get a hold of you? I know most of our businesses come, and 80% of our business is coming from other attorneys. So let's how do how do they reach out to you?

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: They can find me on our firm's website, which is www.walknerlawfirm.com. You can find me on LinkedIn at Corinne Cantwell Heggie, Facebook at Walkner Law Firm, and of course my direct dial 2249043895224

Ron Bockstahler: Remember when the 224 numbers came out? I was like, I don't want a 224 number. I live in Chicago. No,

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: I felt old.

Ron Bockstahler: Well, thanks for joining the show. It's been wonderful having you. Really appreciate it, and we look forward to get back on on the show sometime in the future.

Corinne Cantwell Heggie: Thanks, Ron. Thanks, Kirsten, and thanks for doing this podcast. I think it's really wonderful for the legal community. Thank

Ron Bockstahler: you. Absolutely. You've been listening to the 1958 Lawyer, and we'll see you next week.

Strickland Bonner: Thanks for listening to the 1958 Lawyer podcast. If you like the show, tell a friend, and please subscribe, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to hear more about Ron, Kirsten, or Amata, go to amadaoffices.com All the links are also available in show notes.